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A brand new AC (unofficial) web page
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 coffeeplease |
A brand new AC (unofficial) web page |
Lead | |
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Posts: 678 (04/17/03 14:38:30) Registered User |
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Tsu Doh Nimh |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 297 (04/18/03 06:12:17) Frequent User |
Hi coffee. Is there a link for it somewhere?
God Bless, --Tsu Doh Nimh |
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DustInTheWind |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 391 (04/18/03 07:51:58) Frequent User |
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coffeeplease |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 678 (04/18/03 08:54:33) Registered User |
Thanks Dust!
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page... | ||
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Posts: 0 (04/18/03 17:58:53) |
I would say that the editor of this site has undertaken a commendable task in presenting information about the ACC for visitors and those who are inquiring. Hopefully, as more denominations and churches do likewise, misunderstandings will become less frequent.
The only difficulty I can see is with the history section, particularly that of the early centuries. If an account of this same time period is read from, for example, a standard reference encyclopedia, along with early church accounts by Eusebius, Tertullian, Polycarp, etc,. there will be evident some discrepancies ( I didn't notice references to any non-Biblical early Christian documents, just late non-Biblical references in the bibliography section). As a non AC, I would say it is a good start though, and to be generally encouraged. Thanks. |
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N789DB |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 372 (04/18/03 19:33:55) |
I agree with you Coffee, WAY over the top!!! He or she paints with a pretty broad brush about other churches, pastors, Christians and I found much of it to be very offensive. Were back to the Elitist/remnant attitude again.
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Tsu Doh Nimh |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 297 (04/19/03 11:19:31) Frequent User |
Hey, they must have made a mistake! On their links page there's no link to this discussion board!
--Tsu Doh Nimh |
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kate |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 39 (04/20/03 17:39:56) |
Ok, I only had time to glance over the first page, but I definitely agree that there is an attitude problem. I mean, we are to aim to make people aware of what the Bible says, but to say to people "Already follow the Bible in its entirety? Don't be so sure until you have read the content on this website!" displays a sort of self-righteous arrogance
 that I am neither fond of nor think to be effective in trying to spread the Gospel and solid Bible teaching.
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Mikey |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 1087 (04/20/03 19:41:35) Registered User |
So correct, kate, hammer square on the nail. I haven't had time to go through all of the site yet either, but it seems to me that it is produced in the same vein as statements that are made all too often, either privately or even publically. The site makes some statements that are quite judgemental and false...if not directly, at least indirectly...if not completely, at least partially. It doesn't point people to Christ, it rather points others to look more at ourselves (i.e. how holy we are rather than how Holy He is......how good and holy the ACC is, how unholy other Christians are) Another point I noticed is that the site also clearly limits the Apostolic Christian faith to simply the ACCA. No others are included.
Take a gander at the list on the first page (via Mikey's interpretation)....I think the attitude I mentioned earlier can clearly be seen with the following thinking (clearly placed on the main page as the purpose for all to see): ------ Other Churches = hypocrites; ACC = no hypocrites Other Churches = after money; ACC = not after money Other Churches = don't follow all Scriptures; ACC = follow all Scriptures Other Churches = driven by numerous building projects, or indiscriminate growth or a pastor's lust for empire-building a family dynasty or fame or fortune; ACC = not driven by any of these Other Churches = a bunch of "holy rollers"; ACC = no "holy rollers" Other Churches = worship is disrespectful and undignified; ACC = worship is respectful and dignified Other Churches = not built on good principles; ACC = church built on the principles of the first-century Christian church Other Churches = a group of people bonded by something OTHER than their love for Christ and each other.; ACC = a group of people bonded by their love for Christ and each other ------ Hopefully the rest of the site has more information on the Gospel (good news) of Jesus Christ: the birth, life, death and resurrection of Jesus and what it means to us moreso than the main (index) page does: (grand total occurences of Jesus' name = 0) compared to mentions of "Apostolic Christian" (grand total = 11 occurences, if my count is right). I know, I know....the name Christ is in Apostolic Christian, but I'm not sure that's good enough. Romans 14:10-13 - 10 But you, why do you judge your brother? Or you again, why do you regard your brother with contempt? For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written, "AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME, AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD." 12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God. 13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather determine this--not to put an obstacle or a stumbling block in a brother's way. I do NOT believe that it is good or proper to boast in ourselves (be it individually, as local fellowships, or as denominations as a whole). I think the much more biblical and appropriate to rather "boast" (glory) in God and Christ, and who They are and what They have done for us!! 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 - 26 For consider your calling, brethren, that there were not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble; 27 but God has chosen the foolish things of the world to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to shame the things which are strong, 28 and the base things of the world and the despised God has chosen, the things that are not, so that He may nullify the things that are, 29 so that no man may boast before God. 30 But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, and righteousness and sanctification, and redemption, 31 so that, just as it is written, "LET HIM WHO BOASTS, BOAST IN THE LORD." Let us say "Amen" with Paul, as he wrote in Romans 15:17 - Therefore in Christ Jesus I have found reason for boasting in things pertaining to God and in Galatians 6:14 - But may it never be that I would boast, except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world. I really do hope and pray that the rest of the site is less like the main page. |
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dulcmr7 |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 34 (04/21/03 09:23:09) |
Mikey said "I really do hope and pray that the rest of the site is less like the main page. "
This is what people see first. I can understand how all of the above conclusions were reached and if we offend someone or make them upset just with the first page, I don't think the rest will be too we received regardless what the tone is - they will be on the defence automatically (I didn't see the tone change too much as I looked through it). My question is does anyone know who is the owner of this page??? I havn't seen any names associated with the letters and articles, nor have I seen anyway to email the webmaster. |
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Unregistered(d) |
A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 0 (04/21/03 09:29:34) |
After reading through all of your posts, I now understand that this website, although unofficial, is not merely an expansion of the official site, but as most of you imply, there's quite a bit of "spin" included. As I mentioned earlier, while the effort is commendable, - the result is not, inasmuch as it fails to truthfully represent what it claims to be. As a non-AC, I can't see it from the inside, -from your experience, but I agree with much that you all have posted, that is troubling about the ideology/ approach of the site's author, and is not representative of the ACC. Thanks. |
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iDOOF |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 132 (04/21/03 12:42:04) |
Does anyone know who is responsible for the site?
whois has it registered to a De Jeaux foundation from chicago. The contact name is _____________... but nobody that I've talked to knows a _____________. There was also an email address supplied... info@apostolicchristianchurch.org... but I haven't been able to get a response... Mikey is not the only clouseau out there  ============= *Admin Note* Welcome back, iDOOF. Yes, I realize you are a Clouseau (great movies, btw) as well, but I edited out the name you shared. Hope you understand. ~Mikey~ |
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Tsu Doh Nimh |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 297 (04/21/03 16:56:05) Frequent User |
iDOOF: whois has it registered to a De Jeaux foundation from chicago.
I think Dejoieaux (sp?) was Samual Froehlich's real (birth) name. "Froehlich" means "joyful" in German. God Bless, --Tsu Doh Nimh |
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DustInTheWind |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 391 (04/21/03 17:55:56) Frequent User |
The Internet's "WayBack" Machine doesn't find any history for www.apostolicchristianchurch.org, so I'm not sure what used to be in its place.
For anyone who wants to know the history of any given website, check out www.archive.org If anyone wants the registrant information that (rightly) won't be posted on this board, you can click here, to find contact information for this person (mail, phone, email, etc.) and ask the questions being posed on this thread. Hopefully, this person will become more responsive than in the past, at least to some users of this board. Signing off - Dr. Dustindo W. Clouseau Esquire  |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 0 (04/30/03 09:20:14) |
It says that our church is NOT, not that non AC chruches are.
It is not a church where the pews are filled with nothing but hypocrites who do not practice what is preached on Sun-day. Yes, really! It is not a church that is after your money! No money plate is ever passed around. Nobody profits financially from your presence at church--and that's the way it should be! It is a church that has dared to follow by the Scriptures in their entirety (instead of sweeping the "hard parts" under the rug). Already follow the Bible in its entirety? Don't be so sure until you have read the content on this website! It is not a church driven by numerous building projects, or indiscrimin-ate growth or a pastor's lust for empire-building or creating a family dynasty or for fame or fortune. It is not a bunch of "holy rollers"--our worship is respectful and dignified. It is a church built on the principles of the first-century Christian church; a group of people bonded by their love for Christ and each other. |
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kate |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 39 (05/01/03 08:10:29) |
Mastercheif,
While the site never does actually say that other churches posess those undesirable characteristics stated, it is very much implied. When one say that OUR chuch is not this or that, whether we intend to or not, we are implying that other churches are this or that. Never underestimate the power of suggestion. When we present ourselves, and our church to others, we must ask ourselves, how will they perceive us? I'm not saying that we should not denounce sin where we see it, but you don't just run up to someone and say "You're going to hell for what you're doing". This is not the way to reach the lost. And isn't that what we're here for in the first place? To proclaim the Gospel, to show them the love of Christ through us? Not to smugly set our church up as being perfect. I'm not saying that we should air out all out dirty laundry, that would be just as ineffective as saying "look at how our church has managed to do all these things at which others have failed". When presenting our church we should, as when we witness people, explain that our church is made up of forgiven sinners (not by saying "we're not hypocrites", because this does not acknowledge the fact that we still sin, and that only through God's grace are we able to be forgiven, it implies that we are able to be holy by our own merits) who strive to grow closer to Christ, and to help eachother in our relationships with Him, through worshiping, learning, praying together, and loving one another. I'm sorry, but I think that the website's creators need to prayerfully consider making some changes. |
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Mikey |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 1087 (05/01/03 11:12:31) Registered User |
You don't need to apologize, kate. You're right on. Thanks for saving me the typing, and for putting it better than I would.
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: New AC Website | ||
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Posts: 0 (05/01/03 18:23:15) |
Do you really suppose that this new AC web page was put up by someone that wants to portray our church in a positive light to the public? Im baffled that many of you appear to be offended by what the author of the new AC web page has done. Many on the ACC discussion board have used sarcasm to punctuate their statements, and have even been praised for doing so. It would appear that the new AC web page is just more of the same, done in a very subtle way. Its similar to another website with writings about our churchat least in this link, the sarcasm/satire is a little more obvious:
http://www.angelfire.com/bc/4me/clouds.html My perception is that whoever put up these sites, desires to fuel public perception of our church somehow thinking of itself more highly than it should. The desire seems to be to proclaim to the world that we are holier than thou, that other churches arent as good as us, etc. Are there people in our church that think this way? Probably. And they should be ashamed of themselves. But does the overwhelming majority think or believe this? This hurts me quite a bit. I love my church dearly, and websites such as these (the new AC web page, clouds.html, and many time the ACC discussion board) accuse me, a part of this body, of believing and doing things that I dont think Ive done. Or at least, I hope I havent. If I have, I would hope that someone would come to me with some loving correction instead of broadcasting what they perceive as my faults in such a public manner. Kate mentioned something about not airing out our dirty laundry. Hasnt that been one of the most popular uses of the ACC discussion board? If we would be offended that another website external to the ACC discussion board dared to air "dirty laundry" on our church, why is it tolerated here? Its my prayer that nobody is ever dissuaded from coming to our church because of what they read on the ACC discussion board or these other websites. Someday were going to have to give an account of everything weve done. |
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kate |
Re: New AC Website | ||
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Posts: 39 (05/02/03 15:03:08) |
None,
I don't view the discussions on this board as airing out diry laundry. I think that the discussions here very constructive, where as I view airing out dirty laundry as being criticism and complaining that is not constructive. As to the image which this website projects to those not from our church, please understand that it is something which the founder, administrators, and moderators prayerfully consider. When things that are not constructive are included in posts (ie. names, or a posts which are offensive or not edifying), they are edited out. I firmly believe that we as participants should also prayerfully consider what we're posting about here. You're right, None, something that is said on this board could affect someone coming to Christ. I think that this website just shows how stongly the brothers and sisters of our church want to seek out Biblical solutions to problems that we face both as individuals and as a body, which I believe shows both our love for Christ and for each other. Just made one teensy-weensy change in nomenclature, Kate. Hope you don't mind. -- Daniel |
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sandseeker |
Re: A brand new AC (unofficial) web page | ||
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Posts: 80 (05/07/03 03:59:46) Admin (Aaron) |
Since when is lack of growth a positive quality in a church??
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: The "other" AC page-the modern dilemma,anonymi | ||
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Posts: 0 (09/07/05 21:41:41) |
Hello everyone!
Yes, the site seems to speak 'Great swelling words', and tries to be a bit 'Folksy'. Regarding "ol Bro John", who is mentioned on that site, who is he??? :\ (I suspect the "webmaster" is a John):D But it really does play - even march in step with the "look at/to us - not to them pattern way too much!!! Especially for a site that the ACCA leaders has no oversight of??? There is, as one stated; a weakness to express the often felt sense that it is us against the world. Or that since we do try to preach a more refined doctrine than one hears from the more trendy pulpits holders; one can be inclined to think it 'is right' to speak harshly for Our/The Truth and strongly against those others that don't copy us (many others sites come to mind). For all the weaknesses of the modern ministries around us; Billy Graham has one quality that I think should show such types the Light... He almost never -if not never- speaks against others (not even any "gossip in disguise") not even the Arab or Hindi gods... But He preaches Christ!! Jhn 12:32 "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me. In short - who is to be in focus???... What do we want to be compared with/against??? (2 Cor 10:12/ Luke 18:10-13)- Mere men??-An easy game, ... But with no winners!! :-[ -- Sorry... I got away from my first thought... I have often wanted - well... I still do want to have a web site! From there I could "get in my say" and maybe affect change in a few willing abd/or mislead hearts!?? -- That is enough for now... only first a creedo that seems to fit here... Always ask questions... But mostly of yourself MDK --- bro in IL -- Editors Note: Some reorganization of this post in order to give it clarity, while attempting to preserve the original thoughts. ~markj81 |
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