Is the ACCA/ACCN like a cult?

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Davey	Re: Mark and Cubs Fan	#41	[-]
Posts: 122 (05/05/06 12:01:46) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Church history and the scriptures clearly prove that the closer and the more like Jesus Christ the Church which is His Body becomes, the stronger the persecution, hatred, and resistance to the gospel the response will be. I disagree. The Lord hardens hearts (a la Pharaoh) of the world to different degrees and at varying times. The church's closeness to Christ does not itself cause resistance. Perhaps there's scripture to back up using persecution as a barometer, but I feel it's a bit of a shortcut. You can have a church that is 99.99% Christ-like and the community will not necessarilly increase persecution or increase their hatred or persecution. To me, that logic gives a bit too much credit to the works of man. Persecution isn't a barometer of the church's walk with Christ. Lukewarmness, yes. Presence (or lack) of persecution, not necessarilly. The Lord is who calls believers to Himself, and the Lord is who allows persecution, et alia. Again, maybe there's scripture (besides that hatred of the Word will inevitably increase) to back up a correlation of closeness=persecution, but for now, it just strikes me the wrong way.
Unregistered(d)	Re: Mark's comments	#42	[-]
Posts: 0 (05/05/06 13:20:06) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Mark, I actually agree with a a lot of what you wrote. However, it seem's you have quite the "laundry" list. What kind of "mixed signals" were Peter and the others sending that caused the Council to accuse them of bringing Christ's blood down on them? This wasn't just a case of accepting or rejecting Christ, it was an accusation of the disciple's behavior. Your right, it isn't only the Imams or clerics teaching of hatred that causes anti-American hatred. I failed to bring up another cause: jealosy and envy. Now don't get me wrong, American foriegn policy hasn't been perfect or steller. But a lot of it stems to that. Look at Israel. From it's very beginning it's neighbors have purposely and blatantly vowed to "drive them into the sea". What's the cause of that? Also, before I move back onto topic, it's interesting to note that much of the Arab world views the West as "the Great Satan or Devil" because of immorality. And yet it is documented that the their beloved martyrs that lived in the USA and carried out the 911 attacks, were also living immorally here before that day. So much for the West having the monopoly an immorality. A lot of accusations stem from hatred, jealosy and envy, and what better way to make it effective than by adding just a little truth? Davey, Just a little analogy. It is said that in time of battle that a fighter pilot can tell he is on target or close, by when he's bombarded by anti-aircraft fire. Thanks.
liveasfreemen	Re: RE: I.S's comments	#43	[-]
Posts: 11 (05/05/06 15:06:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* Members can withdraw their membership at any time and leave our denomination. Does that sound like a cult to you? Mmmm. Not so much. At least, not everywhere. I know a couple that left an ACCA congregation over a year ago, for reasons of doctrine, not sin. They had a terrible time leaving, and the elder and ministers flat-out refused to remove their names from membership rolls. If I understand correctly, the only way they can get their names off the member list there is to do something (like taking communion at non-ACCA church) that will cause them to be excommunicated. It seems a little unbalanced to me that the only way you can officially leave is to be consigned to the furies, at least in the minds of the church leadership. I'm not falling on the side of cult or not-cult, but it's not always so easy to leave as you make out, Why.
Davey	Re: RE: I.S's comments	#44	[-]
Posts: 122 (05/05/06 21:16:41) Administrator Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	liveasfreemen, Please explain how 'not being removed from a list' constitutes continued membership. Or, explain how "officially" leaving any group or club would require anything more than formally communicating your desire to the leadership (or maybe in writing, if you want to get ber-technical).
mkharsh33	Re: RE: I.S's comments	#45	[-]
Posts: 12 (05/06/06 11:22:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	- grace means that Jesus died for all people on the cross...there is NEVER any mention in scripture of a "vote" being cast to come to salvation in Christ - "unity" is not the same as "uniformity" - the first embraces and appreciates the differences in others...the second says that everyone must dress, act, look, think exactly alike - Christ said he came to set us free...He condemned the pharisees and teachers of the law as "hypocrites" because the numerous rules and restrictions they place on others, all the while they believed themselves to be humble because of their "outward religious activity" - yet Christ said of them they were as "whitewashed tombs" - Jesus did not come to create a "religion" but rather invite us to have a relationship with Him...not a bunch of "legalistic rules" to be followed, but a family of believers who believe in the 5 purposes of the church: worship, fellowship, evangelism, ministry, and discipleship - any religious belief system that tells people they are to not read things outside of their teachings is mind-control in the worst form...the Apostolic church does this - you can see that on this forum plain and clear I have family who are in the Apostolic church...it IS a cult. I don't care what kind of vernacular one uses to make their case for this religious sect, it is full of people who view their "religion" by comparing their lives to others around them. They continue to believe that their faith is "do." But Christ died on the cross, and is now seated at the right-hand of the Father...meaning it is "done" (or "finished" as He said from the cross). Many of my family in this church [...] continue to worry and "play by the rules" because there is no certainty that they have pleased the Lord because of all the "rules" the Apostolic Church places on them. I would never let anyone I love become a part of that church...it is uniformity in its worst form. I see little joy in their lives and it must be tough on them trying to "work" their way to heaven, comparing their lives with those around them, and having this sense of "false humility" when they (in closed circles) continue to compare their legalistic life to those around them. mkharsh33, Welcome to AC Discussion. Please read the guidelines. -- Daniel
Unregistered(d)	Cult Accusations	#46	[-]
Posts: 0 (05/08/06 14:16:31) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	mkharsh33, You stated, "unity" is not the same as "uniformity" (per Webster's New World College Dictionary), unity -- 1. the state of being one, or united; oneness . . . 2. something complete in itself . . . 3. the quality of being one in spirit, sentiment, purpose, etc; harmony; agreement; concord; uniformity . . . Apostle Paul did not tell the Corinthians to "embrace" differences in others. Diversity Training instructors tell us to do that. Paul exhorted them to agree: "I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." I Cor. 1:10 Later, he wrote to the Philippians (3:16): " . . . Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing." Phil. 3:16 I do not see any actual scripture in your post. I may be missing something, but your summary of the Pharisees' and their problems is incomplete. While you are clearly unimpressed by what you refer to as "outward religious activity", Jesus requires both inward and outward: " . . . cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also." Mt. 23:26 While I think the ACC has problems, and some individual ACCs have a lot of problems (especially in their understanding of ACC doctrine), I thank God that it is still standing as one of few sects who have not been consumed by the empty platitudes of demagogues. For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad. II Cor. 5:10
Unregistered(d)	Re: RE: I.S's comments	#47	[-]
Posts: 0 (05/08/06 14:55:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Mark, I wish I had more time today, because I think you and A Cub's Fan have brought up 3 or 4 very good issues to discuss. For now, I want to address: "And, believe it or not, one of the major selling points--on par with, if not greater than the religious one--has been propaganda that the U.S. is bent on world domination and killing their people." World Domination The US did not dominate Germany after WW II, it did not dominate Iraq after the Gulf War, and it is not dominating Iraq now. Yet, the propaganda is still out there and it still succeeds. "Killing Their People" In the 90s, the US sent troops to Kosovo to stop the killing of Muslims by the Milosevic regime. Secular Muslim dictators, like Saddam Hussein, kill "their people", by the thousands, on a regular basis. Yet, the propaganda is still out there and it still succeeds. Please be more specific about what it is that the US should have done and should be doing differently. Because the US's actions do not seem to be having any logical effect on the recruits you are concerned about. I think this issue as analogous to cult accusations is valid, but I think it supports my position: Many of the United States' actions have been just and honorable. Many of the ACC's "cultic" attributes are Healthy and scriptural, whether the accusers want to acknowledge it or not. Also, you gave a very interesting list earlier. One of the items was "strict cultural asceticism divorced from gospel faith". (Side note: Don't you think "asceticism" is kind of an exaggeration, here? Am I practicing asceticism because I don't wear bangs even though I would look better with them? :) At any rate, please share the criterion you use to determine which practices are divorced from gospel faith vs. which practices edify the church. I think this is the most important issue in this thread.
giant slayer	Re: Cult or no cult?	#48	[-]
Posts: 821 (05/08/06 15:47:12) Frequent User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	On page 2 of this thread, Cubs Fan made a list of things required for membership in the ACC. No one has responded to this list. I would like to hear a response from both ACCA and ACCN. Are these things true? If so, are they true on both sides? Would those who support these things, assuming they are true, please give some scriptural support for these things? Does the Bible teach that those who have mustaches must be rejected for membership? Can I not take communion if I have a mustache? I am moving from Oregon to central Ohio in about six weeks. I have been waiting for an opportunity to visit an ACC Church. There, I will be only a few short miles from one. Should I shave my mustache before attending? Must I wear a black tie? Should I ride a horse? David
markJ81	Some Thoughts	#49	[-]
Posts: 1153 (05/08/06 19:21:44) Frequent User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Interested Sister, At any rate, please share the criterion you use to determine which practices are divorced from gospel faith vs. which practices edify the church. I think this is the most important issue in this thread. I feel this point is most important, so (as much as I'd love to focus in on the topic of your bangs, or lack thereof :>), I will focus in on this one paragraph and ignore the rest. Hopefully it will make me less long-winded. (as an aside..when I spoke of asceticism, I was speaking of an imposed collective flavour of it, and hence personal instances or freely occuring collective expressions of it are not what I was addressing) In case I wasn't clear..I have no intention to classify whole practices as being, by definition, divorced from gospel faith. I think that is impossible and not very logical. Are some practices more condusive to that possiblility? Probably or at least maybe. But more importantly: Is that it seems to me that there are many instances in which many practices are held, divorced from gospel faith. Perhaps the worst and most painful description of this problem is when the church begins churning out converts that can eloquently defend and explain the most obscure practices (which may not even be around in 5-10 years even in churches that are thoroughly committed to "stemming the tide"), but are unable to identify what cleanses sin, or what gets them into the kingdom of God, or what the gospel is. There may be some practices, which are completely un-rooted in biblical mandate. And yet, to some extent, these practices could be said to be tied to gospel faith (ie. they are claimed in some way elude to or support our apprehension of the truth). However, what I see, from my vantage point... is the "great divorce", where there seems to be a large chasm between what the "apologist" for the practice presents as the basis for the practice (some correlation to gospel truth), and what the "grassroots" subscription to the practice is in actuality prompted by. Maybe 100 or 200 years ago, this or that practice, actually had some sort of correlation and was "edifying" (definition of edify: To instruct especially so as to encourage intellectual, moral, or spiritual improvement - aka.. To "build up"). But the apologist for the practice is often reaching over to the REASONING of 100 or 200 years ago to defend the PRACTICE of it now. However, are you willing to accept the possibiltiy that in some cases that these practices which you think are "edifying" are really just pacifying (which is by no means what "edify" means) those who are stuck in a certain pattern? If a practice is not speaking (or instructing) in the PRACTICE of it NOW, it is meaningless and really just an empty shell. So, I would say that, not always, but frequently we are taking practices that had a deep meaning to our forefathers (no doubt about that), but are importing them into a context which is so foreign to their institution, that we are loosing the connection they had (if any) to any true meaning in terms of the gospel and the apphrension of God's truth. It is actually possible that we hypothetically can actually do more disservice to a practice by (a) continuing it in a way which departs from the original intent as opposed to (b) ceasing from practicing it and choosing some practice which will instruct (read: edify) within the context we are within.
markJ81	Re: Some Thoughts	#50	[-]
Posts: 1153 (05/08/06 19:24:10) Frequent User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Interesting Sister, Please explain what you mean when you say "edify the church" in regard to practices? This is often a common cliche used by people to try and support whatever particular list of practices they feel should be preserved, but rarely is given any tangible helpful definition. Have we actually given ANY thought to what actually edifies the church? Or do we use that term as a ploy to get what WE want? I have attempted to give some context of how I understand it by giving the definition of "edify" and tying it to "instruction" to the end of "building up". Practices that edify speak to US in OUR culture about truth, hopefully gospel truth. I have some reasons to believe that some practices that are suggested as "edifying" to our church can in some circumstances actually "tear it down" both in its mission to the world and its nuture of its members. I call that "unedifying", in the sense of not merely the absence of edification, but actually denigrating what edifying is supposed to do. Why? Because they've been thoughtlessly applied to our culture en masse and in some circumstances just don't fit or communicate anything worthwhile. And they can even become roadblocks to those people who think they need them.
amchiro	Re: Cult or no cult?	#51	[-]
Posts: 246 (05/08/06 20:09:14) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	ACCN: #3 and #10 are generally true within the proper context. All the others are not true for the ACCN. Wow, I didnt know there was that much a difference between ACCA and ACCN.
Curious Onlooker	Re: Cult or no cult?	#52	[-]
Posts: 121 (05/08/06 20:25:24) Frequent User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Giant Slayer, First of all, let me say, "Come as you are". No need to shave your mustache, wear a black tie, or ride a horse. You are welcome to attend however you come. Now, I will attempt to respond, as I understand it, related to the ACCA: 1. Generally, church members are encouraged to be clean-shaven. This was not the case historically, but it has become our practice. 2. We practice closed Communion. (1 Cor 11:27-29) 3&4. Church members are expected to only marry other church members. (2 Cor 6:14) 5. Sisters are encouraged to have long hair. (1 Cor 11:15) Depending on the congregation, sometimes this means that sisters are encouraged not to have bangs. 6. The titles of Brother and Sister are reserved for those who are church members. 7. The church is expanding its missionary outreaches, but generally tries to make sure that those who are sharing the gospel also have access to fellowship and worship with likeminded believers, in order to meet their own spiritual needs. (Heb 10:25) 8. Church members are generally encouraged not to have TVs (Psalm 101:3) or to attend or participate in competitive sports. (Gal 5:19-21) Sisters are generally encouraged not to wear pants. (Deut 22:5, 1 Tim 2:9) 9. I have copies of several General Conferences and Memorandums. I think these are beginning to be more widely shared throughout the church than they were in the past. 10. As discussed at length in another thread, the ACCA does generally request someone who wishes to be a part of our denominationto be rebaptized, unless they are from another anabaptist denomination. 11. We are not required to learn German. I do not dispute that this may have happened in the past, but it certainly is not the case now. 12. I have known people who have just "slid away", and others who "asked to have their membership removed", and others who were "excommunicated". I think how a person leaves, and how hard it is, depends on the person and the situation. CO
giant slayer	Re: Cult or no cult?	#53	[-]
Posts: 821 (05/09/06 05:55:16) Frequent User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Hi CO: I appreciate your response. You always come through. God bless you. In reply: 1. Clean shaven, not being scriptural or an Apostolic doctrine, as handed down from the twelve could be evidence of cultic behavior if it is indeed required for membership as stated by Cubs Fan. 2. To closed communion, I say Amen. 3 and 4. It depends on what is meant by church member. If you mean a member of the Church of Jesus Christ which is His body on earth, then the scripture you quoted as evidence is correct. If you mean a member of the ACCA/ACCN, it is not scriptural and could be evidence of cultic behavior. 5. If it is as you say that long hair and no bangs is encouraged then I would say the quoted scripture would apply. The scripture passage does not state that it is a requirement, only that it is her glory. If it is a requirement for church membership, I see it as cultic, in that it is tradition of men rather than scripturally mandated. However, I would add that church membership is also non-scriptural, not unscriptural, as applied to denominational membership. 6. Here again it depends on what is meant by church membership. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ which is His body on earth, therefore if you are also, then I am your brother and deserving of the title of brother. If I must be a member of the ACC to be called brother then it is no different than being a member of the free masons, and can be considered cultic. 7. Hebrews 10:25 is speaking of neglect not necessity. If we are not grounded enough in the Lord Jesus to maintain our spiritual health long enough to take the gospel into a location where it is presently unavailable then we are in sad shape spiritually and should not be missionaries anyway. How in the world would one expect to find an established church in the area where he would go to establish one? This makes no sense at all. That is all I have time for now. I will try and address the remaining points later today. In Christ David
HonorHim	Re: Cult or no cult?	#54	[-]
Posts: 75 (05/09/06 05:55:42) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	From the Cubs Fan, 2. And since youre apparently still in the ACC, you wouldnt know that one does not just pick up and go so easily when they decide to leave. Its much harder than that! I have to agree with what you say on this one. When you are about to leave everyone is asking why and trying to draw you back. We were there a year ago and only threw friends did we stay but I question myself still. Our family would have left in anger and this would not have been well. Basically, if you leave the ACCA you aren't going to Heaven. John
A Cubs Fan	Mustaches, etc.	#55	[-]
Posts: 60 (05/09/06 06:03:41) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	In response to #1. Yes, GS, come as you are as long as youre visiting. If, however, you are seeking membership, the come as you are days are over. I do think that COs statement of: church members are encouraged to be clean-shaven is debatable. Encouraged would indicate this practice is preferred among its members, but not required. I traveled extensively as an ACCA and visited more of their churches than I can even remember from Silverton OR, to Rockville CT, to Athens AL, to Washington DC and many, many in between and I can honestly say that I have never met an ACCA brother with a mustache, beard, goatee, whatever. I do not believe that if you, GS, were to show up for your Testimony/Proving Night at an ACCA church with a mustache, that you would be approved for baptism. At least I have never known it to happen, if someone else has, please let me know.
liveasfreemen	Re: RE: I.S's comments	#56	[-]
Posts: 11 (05/09/06 07:16:05) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	*Quote:* Please explain how 'not being removed from a list' constitutes continued membership. You're right, of course, Davey. It doesn't mean you're still a member. I think I wasn't clear about what I meant, and I apologize. The refusal to remove their names from membership rolls was a symptom of the problem, rather than the problem itself. This couple was pursued by leadership and others in the church, who were in great distress that they wanted to leave, and have, in some cases, refused to acknowledge that it has happened. I think that, mostly, these people are sincerely distressed. They believe that this couple, by leaving the church, has fallen away from God. Such focus on their denominational affiliation, when their other behavior has exhibited their commitment to God, seems to me to be a problem. I hope this is a little more clear. I don't think I can be more specific without posting personal details that I don't think are appropriate, or productive.
Unregistered(d)	Re: Some Thoughts	#57	[-]
Posts: 0 (05/09/06 07:44:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Mark, Regarding, "However, are you willing to accept the possibiltiy that in some cases that these practices which you think are "edifying" are really just pacifying (which is by no means what "edify" means) those who are stuck in a certain pattern?" Yes, I am willing. By all means, let's discuss. But are you willing to accept the possibility that in some cases these practices (no dating) are edifying, even though they alienate the ACC from Mainstream Christianity, make us a gazingstock, and cause people to throw around words like "cult"? I was hoping for more of an operational definition of "divorced from faith". Do you understand what I mean? Since you and I agree that what edifies can be extremely subjective, let's try to button down a more specific criterion. My reading of the Bible has led me to the conclusion that the commands that Christians must follow are Spirit-given. The Word is to be used as a grounding force by which each Christian must "try the spirits" (I Jn.). The Holy Spirit will only direct believers to do things that fulfill the principles and specific commands of the Bible. That is how sincere believers (people who have put their own desires aside and objectively seek God's will) will be able to discern what the Spirit is telling them. (By the way, Mark and Giant Slayer: read through Timoth I & II. Do you see Paul at any time, warning him against the temptation to "make a rule"? I don't. If "rules" are such a threat to spirituality, where is the warning to the elders against making them?) One aspect of this system is that, unlike with the dead, stone-carved Law, God can specifically instruct Christians in how to fulfill the principles of the New Covenant -- across eras. So yes, you are right. There is room for changing church practices. But it can only be done by Spirit-led people. And right now, too many reform-oriented members (ACCN) appear to be indiscriminately following increasingly carnal standards/practices/liberties of other denominations. Example: Strapless evening gowns at weddings. "Shakin' it" at wedding receptions. Am I expected to respect reformers who serve this kind of behavior up in the name of "Liberty"? Is this what the ACC is obligated to "allow" so that people will not refer to us as "cultic"? Thanks for a good discussion.
Curious Onlooker	Re: Missionary Fellowship	#58	[-]
Posts: 121 (05/09/06 07:47:28) Frequent User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Giant Slayer, Just to clarify on point #7: Even missionaries need fellowship and support. (I have family who have been missionaries, outside of the ACCA, all over the world for years, and they too seek fellowship with likeminded believers.) If we think we don't need it, we may want to examine our own attitude. When I said "access to fellowship and worship with likeminded believers," maybe I should have been more clear (and less concise) that that was not necessarily meant to imply an established ACCA congregation already exists. Sometimes there is one not too far away (across the border from northern Mexico to an established congregation in southern Texas or Arizona). Sometimes we do what we can to make sure there is enough support from "home" or that a group of people go out together (that is how many of our current churches were originally established). Sometimes, we are able to partner with other likeminded Christians and are thankful for their fellowship (Haiti). CO
giant slayer	Re: Cult or no cult?	#59	[-]
Posts: 821 (05/09/06 07:58:03) Frequent User Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Continued from earlier: 8. I agree that these things are good, however, I don't see how attending a sporting event would fall in the list in Galatians. It could, but it doesn't have to. A person can be a holy and righteous example for Christ at a sporting event, a dinner with a tax collector, or anywhere else. To participate in sinful behavior is where the line should be drawn. I also agree that it is sinful for a woman to wear man's clothing, however, today no one knows the difference. Does that make it right for a woman to wear slacks? I don't think so. It would be wrong for me if I were a woman, however, I am not the judge of what is and what isn't mans clothing or woman's clothing for others. There is strong scriptural support for the position of not wearing slacks for women. The television thing, I agree that it is not a good thing, however, to make it a test of fitness for church membership tends to fall somewhat in the "cult" area, in my opinion. 9. Unless a subject of discipline is being discussed, or something that could do harm to another, there should be nothing that the elders could not share with the church body. 10. If a person has a scriptural baptism and displays the fruit of the Spirit, it is wrong to require re-baptism. 11. The thing about the German is just plain silly. If this were ever required, I think the person should run, not walk, but run from such a group. 12. No one should be forced or coerced to stay where they don't want to be. The rich young ruler went away sad, because he had great riches. I am sure the Lord was sad also, but He didn't force him to stay. God bless David
Unregistered(d)	Cubs Fan's List	#60	[-]
Posts: 0 (05/09/06 08:06:25) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts Message Me Connection Blocking Invite Ignore User's Posts	Cubs Fan, I've looked over your list, and some of the things in it are not issues in the ACCN. Nor would I support instituting them in the ACCN. If, however, I moved to the ACCA, be assured that I would submit and not rebel against these things to make a point. Rebellion is not the answer. Spiritual edification is. Build up a church enough spiritually, and each side will loosen its grip on liberties (the one fighting against them and the one fighting for its right to them). I am curious about something, though. This is a genuine question -- not rhetorical, to make a point -- so I can understand what you believe: If you were starting your own church, and a woman seeking baptism from you consistently showed up at church in cleavage-bearing, tight tops and very short skirts, how would you approach her? What would your explanation/justification to her be? Please be specific.

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Is the ACCA/ACCN like a cult?

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