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Unregistered(d) |
Being a police officer, and killing someone by self defense. |
Lead | |
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I don't really know if you can be a police officer if you're a Apostolic christian member, my pastor told me it was ok. But My quetion is, what if one day I make a traffic stop and the person that I stop fires a weapon at me and I have to respond back and I end up killing him, is that a sin?
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Unregistered(d) |
to private mendez | ||
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i personally do not think one has sinned if it was in self defence. did the apostals not teach that if one did not protect their own family they were were worse than an unbeliever?
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Aaron |
Re: Being a police officer, and killing someone by self defe | ||
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technically, they taught that you should FEED your family, they said nothing about self-defense. Jesus taught that if anybody hits you, don't resist them.
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BearCharlton |
Re: Being a police officer, and killing someone by self defe | ||
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No Worries.
If you have questions regarding returning fire, or shooting to protect the life of another, there aren't likely any police departments which will hire you. |
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Unregistered(d) |
Re: Being a police officer, and killing someone by self defe | ||
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Christ, and His apostles never believed in physical defense, they believed in letting people hurt them physically, and the instance Jesus went right through the crowd shows he believed when God wants a person to do something physical they can not hurt the other person physically, so He protected Himself when they wanted to push Him off the cliff, by going through them, but He did not hurt them, He stopped them from doing something to hurt Him, Physically He never hurt anyone, in the future, when He comes to fight the antichrist, He will defeat the evil people, by spiritually having fire, and brimstone come out of His mouth, so spiritual violence is allowed when God wants that. Wow, I must say I think a demon was just manifesting itself in a woman, I was not even talking to her, I was just typing, but she was talking to her child, and then her voice changed, and she said die, then she talked to him more, and then said die, I thought it was a guy, but I look and all I saw was the woman, and the little child. He that is in us is greater, then He that is in the world, I can do all things through Christ who strengthens us. I am very happy that happened, because I must be getting back to spiritually being blessed by Christ, that means I will enter into the presence of God. I love the presence of God, may we all get there. Being in Him. I hope this is alright I wrote this, it is a beneficial thing to me to increase the faith of other people, so they may believe in Christ, and follow Him, as He has instructed in The New Testament. Praise, and worship God, and His Christ with me.
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Unregistered(d) |
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Unregistered(d) |
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Unregistered(d) |
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KENTUCKY REDBONE |
Re: Unknown | ||
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In the Bible thier are war,s approved by God.I believe selfdefence is allowable.
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Daniel |
Re: Unknown | ||
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Redbone,
In the Old Testament, God spoke directly to the prophets, priests, and kings, to do battle as he ordained (which is not the same as "approved"). Well, the time of the prophets is past, but who is now King of the Jews? and who is our Great High Priest? If you follow the example given in the Old Testament, there is only one person whom you can follow into war, and that is Jesus Christ. Why do you believe that doing violence in self defense is allowable? Is it a conclusion drawn from your experience, or is is based on the Bible? Jesus rebuked Peter for using a sword to try to prevent Jesus' capture (Matt 26:51). Later, he said "My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36). And what about the Apostles during the early days of the Church? Which of them resorted to violence to prolong his life? |
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KENTUCKY REDBONE |
Re: Unknown | ||
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^^^^ Alot of it is personal conviction.However I haven,t seen any direct command,s agiast selfdefence in the Bible.On killing I believe that thou shalt not kill,mean,s not to kill when not just or nessasary.While I,ve never killed or been in a kill or be killed type fight I have had to deal with bully,s that like to beat poeple up.I leart that when I stood up to them and was willing to fight back they layed off.While if I did,nt theyed just keep hiting me harder and harder all the time.I also believe that it,s my duty to protect the innocent and if I don,t try then I would be guilty of thier death.Now I don,t know how many people in my church agree or not with me cuase I haven,t asked.This is my beliefe based on my interpatation of the Bible and what you might call some Hillbilly thinking.
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DustInTheWind |
Re: Being a police officer, and killing someone by self defe | ||
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Is there anywhere in scripture where self-defense is condoned? Is the natural act of self-preservation/protection/fear-reflex something we should be actively repressing to "avoid" the sin, or should the Spirit's presence in our life cause our human reactions (fear/reflex) to be lessed, thereby not making the (quote) sin (unquote) of self-defense an immediate reaction?
I think some premeditation needs to exist. Peter seemed to have reacted immediately but LESS immediately than if the soldier was coming after Peter himself. Because someone else was in danger, and not himself, I think Jesus was referring to Peter's premeditated defense of "someone-else". I'm not sure He was addressing 'split-second' reactionary self-defense. Am I way off? |
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Curious Onlooker |
Re: Self-defense - Turn the other cheek | ||
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DITW,
In Matthew 5:39, Jesus sounds like He is addressing the "'split-second' reactionary self-defense" of which you speak, while the verses surrounding it could be seen as addressing the more premeditated or thought-through type of defense or retribution. As I read it, in either case Jesus is saying don't do it. |
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ACC minister |
Re: Self-defense - Turn the other cheek | ||
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DITW:
I do not think that a split second reactionary self-defense is even controllable, let alone sinful. In fact, even if one has some time to think about it, is it a sin to defend oneself as a last resort? I think the concept of self-defense is supported in scripture by 2 NT passages (maybe more, but this is all I can think of): 1. In Luke 22:35-38 Jesus instructs his disciples to take swords on their future trips. It appears that even though He Himself was not going to resist the death that was coming, He wanted them to have swords. Ironically, one of these 2 swords was used by Peter to strike the servants ear in the garden, giving Jesus the opportunity to teach them (and us) that His kingdom would not be spread by force (Jn 18:36). Thus, one could argue that the swords were not for offense, but for self-defense. 2. Jesus also used the analogy of the strong man defending his house in Mk 3:27. Yet, at the same time, Jesus taught us to endure all kinds of suffering and personal loss in Mt 5:38-44, which I think shows that we are to resist violence as a means of resolving disputes and to take the short end of the straw if necessary. But does this teaching extend to us giving up our life or of our families without a struggle? Im not sure that I would consider someone who physically defended himself or his family as a last resort to be committing a sin. If the intent was to kill the attacker, that might be different. But if someone whacks the bad guy over the head with a frying pan in order to stop his knife attack, and he ended up dying, I dont think I would consider him to be guilty of sin. Now it is my turn to ask Am I way off? |
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DustInTheWind |
Re: Self-defense - Turn the other cheek | ||
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The purpose of law enforcement is different than the individual's purpose. Does Christ's teachings apply to the principle of JUCIDIAL law? Who then is able to enforce the law and have a part in GOD?
Why did Paul in Acts 22:25 ask that they not hit him? Because the law protected an uncondemed Roman. Shouldn't he have just turned the other cheek? Does Christ's teachings support a lawless society where there is no actual enforcement of the law? At what point does a policeman stop being an individual and start representing a cause greater than himself? (akin to how Christians represent the greater cause of Christ's teachings) Policemen answer to their chief who answers to a judge. As do we. Cannot policemen handle responsibilities of both GOD and Law? |
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DustInTheWind |
Re: Self-defense - Turn the other cheek | ||
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ACC Minister - I agree. Non-violent resistence to a COMING struggle is not sin.
Using a gun when a tazer would do is sin. Non-resistance can be bordering on irresponsibility when you see your family being endangered. "I'll just sit here and let the Lord's will happen" instead of "I'd better call the police on my cell phone". ....."but oh, wait, the Police would use violence...so I'll just let the robber finish hurting my family and wait until he leaves." If Apostle Paul can resort to using the law as a means of escaping being smitten, I feel an officer can also safely disable a potential threat - using non-lethal methods. *clarification* - I don't feel a child of GOD should aspire to being an officer. With potential cases like this, I'd never recommend it, but we also shouldn't look down upon officers, military personnel, or Roman soldiers for carrying out their position. We should pray for them. ;) |
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Unregistered(d) |
police officer and killing in self defense | ||
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I'M ONE OF THOSE POLICE OFFICERS AND I'M LOOKING FOR ANSWERS. I'M A CHRISTIAN AND ALWAYS FELT THE LORD WANTED ME TO BE IN THIS PROFESSION, KNOWING FULL WELL THAT THE POSSIBILITY EXISTED THAT I MAY ONE DAY HAVE TO USE DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF MYSELF OR OTHERS. AM I NOW TO BELIEVE THAT I WILL NEVER SEE THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN BECAUSE A CONVICTED FELON CHOOSE TO USE A GUN TO MAKE GOOD HIS ESCAPE AND SHOOT AT ME. I BELIEVE THE LORD WAS WITH ME IN THAT ALLEY CAUSING HIM TO MISS AND I REALIZE ULTIMATELY I MADE THE CHOICE TO USE DEALY FORCE, HOWEVER AM I NOW TO BELIEVE THAT THE LORD HAS GUIDED MY LIFE TO THIS POINT, BEING LED TO CHRIST , ONLY TO NOW BE CAST FROM HIS HOUSE FOREVER. IF CHRISTIANS CANNOT BE THE POLICE THEN WHO IS TO STOP THE EVIL DOERS OF THIS WORLD FROM PRAYING ON THE WEAK AND WIDOWED PEOPLE OF THIS WORLD OR TO SET EXAMPLES FOR THE INNER CITY YOUTH WHO LIVE IN POVERTY DAY IN AND DAY OUT. IF I AM TO BE A WARRIOR FOR THE LORD AND HAVE THE WORD GO OUT BEFORE ME AM I TO ALLOW MYSELF TO BE SHOT DOWN BECAAUSE OF MY UNIFORM AND PROFESSION AND SIMPLY ROLLED OFF THE SIDE OF THE ROAD.EITHER WAY, MY LOT HAS BEEN CAST. I CANNOT UNDUE WHAT HAS BEEN DONE. AS IT ALWAYS HAS BEEN, MY LIFE AND SOUL IS IN THE LORD'S HANDS. TO MY FELLOW OFFICERS, PEACE BE WITH YOU! TO THOSE OF YOU WHO ARE NOT IN THE LAW ENFORCEMENT COMMUNITY, SHOW COMPASSION, FOR THIS ISSUE IS JUST ONE OF SEVERAL HUNDREDS POLICE OFFICERS ENCOUNTER EVERYDAY AND NITE, SEEING THE HORRORS WE HERE ON EARTH COMMIT AGAINST EACH OTHER ON A REGULAR BASIS AND ALLOW TO CONTINUALLY OCCUR.
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Unregistered(d) |
police officer and killing in self defense | ||
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del16462,
Romans 13 gives the clearest explanation of how the Church is to regard government. Some Christians -- many in the Apostolic Christian Church -- believe that he that "beareth not the sword in vain . . . the minister of God" (Rom. 13:4) is not referring to Christians. Why? Because apostle Paul goes further in describing this kind of "minister of God" as "a revenger to excute wrath upon him that doeth evil." (Rom. 13:4) Before Christ, one of the ways God's People (lsrael) glorified Him was through their physical dominance of the peoples around them. When obedient, they were a (physical) force to be wreckened with. Christ changed this mission of physical strength to spiritual strength -- demonstrated by a willingness and ability to withstand abuse/persecution, see Matt. 5. Clearly, "executing wrath" -- even upon him that doeth evil -- is not part of the Christian's calling. The Church glorifies God not by taking down wrongdoers, but by fulfilling Matt. 5. This is why some Christians believe it is not a Christian's place to serve in this area of government. Look at the language Paul uses in Rom. 13. The church is referred to as "thee" and "thou", but the minister of God/wrath is referred to as "he" ("he is the minister of God to thee for good") Paul places Christians and revengers in two different categories. Paul's whole point is that there is a level of nobility in this line of work -- that some moral force needs to keep control of the evil forces in the world so that they do not consume it (before its time). The moral forces should be respected by the People of God, but are not the People of God. Just as God worked through Pharaoh and other pagan kings in the Old Testament to accomplish His purposes, God works through secular government to keep order today. Obviously, your first concern is that you will be judged by God for defending yourself against the criminal in that alley. All I can say to that is that it is my understanding that God makes allowances for people who err in ignorance (sorry, I can't think of the scripture off the top of my head). If you truly did not realize that Christians are not given leave to kill even wrongdoers, only God can judge, no? |
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giant slayer |
Re: police officer and killing in self defense | ||
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del16462: Thank you for your service. Your obedience in your profession is to be admired. It is unfortunate that any man must serve in a capacity that is so destructive to his soul. It takes a special kind of man and a special despensation of grace to do your job. May the Lord bless you and keep you.
David |
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Unregistered(d) |
use of deadly force | ||
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I BELIEVE YOU ARE INCORRECT. I HAVE SINCE STUDIED ROMANS 13 AND HAVE FOUND PEACE. I BELIEVE THAT GOD HAS STATED THAT POLICE ARE THE PART OF THE GOVERNMENT THAT SHALL CARRY "THE SWORD" AND THAT EVILDOERS WHO BLATANTLY HAVE DISREGARD FOR THE LAW SHOULD BE VERY AFRAID BECAUSE AS IT IS WRITTEN, THE SWORD WILL BE DRAWN FROM ITS SCABBARD. I HAVE FOUND MY PEACE.
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